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    Mastercard jumps into generative AI race with model it says can boost fraud detection by up to 300%

    Mastercard told CNBC it’s launching a new generative artificial intelligence model to allow banks to better assess suspicious transactions on its network.
    The new Decision Intelligence Pro feature is powered by a proprietary recurrent neural network — a core part of generative AI — built in house.
    Mastercard claims the tech can help financial institutions improve their fraud detection rates by as much as 300% in some cases.

    BARCELONA, SPAIN – MARCH 01: A view of the MasterCard company logo on their stand during the Mobile World Congress on March 1, 2017 in Barcelona, Spain. (Photo by Joan Cros Garcia/Corbis via Getty Images)
    Joan Cros Garcia – Corbis | Corbis News | Getty Images

    Payments giant Mastercard says it has built its own proprietary generative artificial intelligence model to help thousands of banks in its network detect and root out fraudulent transactions.
    The company told CNBC exclusively that its new advanced AI model, Decision Intelligence Pro, will allow banks to better assess suspicious transactions on its network in real-time and determine whether they’re legitimate or not.

    Ajay Bhalla, Mastercard’s president of cyber and intelligence business unit, told CNBC that the new AI solution is a proprietary recurrent neural network — a core part of generative AI — from Mastercard built from scratch by the company’s cybersecurity and anti-fraud teams.
    “We are using the transformer models which basically help get the power of generative AI,” Bhalla told CNBC in an exclusive interview earlier this week. “It’s all built in house we’ve got all kinds of data from the ecosystem. Because of the very nature of the business we are in, we see all the transaction data which comes to us from the ecosystem.”
    In some cases, Mastercard is relying on open source “whenever needed,” but the “majority” of the technology is created in house, Bhalla added.
    Mastercard’s proprietary algorithm is trained on data from the roughly 125 billion transactions that go through the company’s card network annually.
    The data helps the AI understand relationships between merchants — rather than words, as is the focus with large language models such as OpenAI’s GPT-4 and Google’s Gemini — and predict where fraudulent transactions are taking place, Mastercard said.

    Heat-sensing fraud patterns

    Instead of textual inputs, Mastercard’s algorithm uses the history of a cardholder’s merchant visit as the prompt to determine whether the business involved in a transaction is a place the customer would likely go.
    The algorithm then generates pathways through Mastercard’s network — kind of a like heat-sensing radar — to find the answer in the form of a score.
    A higher score would be one that follows the pattern of what’s the usual kind of behavior expected from the cardholder, and a lower score is out of that pattern.
    This process all happens in just 50 milliseconds, according to Mastercard.
    Bhalla said the new transaction decisioning technology from Mastercard can help financial institutions improve their fraud detection rates by 20%, on average. In some cases, though, the model has led to improvements in fraud detection rates of as much as 300%, Bhalla added.
    Mastercard says it’s invested more than $7 billion in cybersecurity and AI technologies over the last five years.

    That includes a number of acquisitions, including its March 2023 deal to buy Swedish cybersecurity firm Baffin Bay Networks.
    Competitor Visa has made investments of its own into AI, including a $100 million venture fund for generative AI startups established by the company in October 2023.
    While it’s still early, Mastercard anticipates its algorithm will enable banks to save as much as 20%, by eliminating much of the costs they’d typically devote to assessing illegitimate transactions.
    The true potential of Mastercard’s technology, according to Bhalla, is in the ability to identify fraudulent patterns and trends to predict future types of fraud that are not currently known within the payments ecosystem.
    “The beauty of Mastercard’s ecosystem is we see data from all our customers globally from these transactions,” he said. “What that does its it helps us actually see fraud and patterns across the ecosystem globally.”
    Several companies in the payments and digital banking space have said recently that AI will lead tomajor changes in their products. PayPal last week week announced new AI-based products as well as a one-click checkout feature.
    WATCH: Mastercard unveils Shopping Muse, an AI-powered personal retail assistant More

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    Jeffrey Gundlach says all the ‘Goldilocks’ talk makes him nervous, thinks recession is still likely

    “When I hear the word ‘goldilocks,’ I get nervous,” Gundlach said Wednesday on CNBC’s “Closing Bell.”
    Many investors had been betting that the economy wasn’t hurt too badly by the Fed’s series of aggressive rate hikes over the past year.
    The Fed kept interest rates unchanged at 5.25% to 5.50% on Wednesday.

    Jeffrey Gundlach speaking at the 2019 Sohn Conference in New York on May 6, 2019.
    Adam Jeffery | CNBC

    DoubleLine Capital CEO Jeffrey Gundlach believes the Federal Reserve poured cold water on hopes for a “Goldilocks” economic scenario benefiting risk assets, and the bond king stuck to his call for a likely recession this year.
    “When I hear the word ‘goldilocks,’ I get nervous,” Gundlach said Wednesday on CNBC’s “Closing Bell.” “When you hear people saying ‘Goldilocks’ and everybody in the room [is] nodding their head in a north-south direction and says ‘yeah, it’s Goldilocks,’ that means everything is priced to something resembling perfection. … Today, Jay Powell took Goldilocks away,” he said, referring to Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell.

    Many investors had been betting that the economy wasn’t hurt too badly by the Fed’s series of aggressive rate hikes over the past year, leaving an economic expansion that’s not too hot, or too cold.
    But Gundlach believes the market’s faith was blindly optimistic and that Powell’s message on Wednesday crushed the “Goldilocks” theory.
    The Fed kept interest rates unchanged at 5.25% to 5.50% on Wednesday, while making it clear that it is not yet ready to ease up on the brakes. Stocks tumbled to session lows as Powell said in a press conference that the central bank would likely not have the level of confidence about inflation to lower rates at its next policy meeting in March.
    “For now, we think there will be a stall in the inflation rate coming down,” Gundlach said. “That will probably mean that the market is not going to get the Goldilocks picture that it was euphoric about a couple of weeks ago.”
    The stock market started 2024 with a bang with the S&P 500 rising to consecutive record highs. The large-cap equity benchmark shed 1.6% Wednesday alone, halving the 2024 gain to 1.6%.

    Gundlach said he still expects to see a recession hitting in 2024. He suggested that investors may want to raise cash to fund buying opportunities when an economic downturn arrives.
    “I think you want cash to be able to get into emerging market trade once the economy slows and perhaps goes into recession,” Gundlach said. “Globally, there are certainly many pockets of recession at present. If we go into the United States recession, I think we will see a buying opportunity and you want cash for that.”Don’t miss these stories from CNBC PRO: More

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    Fed holds rates steady, indicates it is not ready to start cutting

    The Federal Reserve sent a tepid signal that it is done raising interest rates but made it clear that it is not ready to start cutting.
    The Federal Open Market Committee removed language that had indicated a willingness to keep raising interest rates until inflation had been brought under control and was on its way toward the Fed’s 2% inflation goal. 
    However, it also said there are no plans yet to cut rates with inflation still running above the central bank’s target.

    WASHINGTON — The Federal Reserve on Wednesday sent a tepid signal that it is done raising interest rates but made it clear that it is not ready to start cutting, with a March move lower increasingly unlikely.
    In a substantially changed statement that concluded the central bank’s two-day meeting this week, the Federal Open Market Committee removed language that had indicated a willingness to keep raising interest rates until inflation had been brought under control and was on its way toward the Fed’s 2% inflation goal. 

    However, it also said there are no plans yet to cut rates with inflation still running above the central bank’s target. The statement further provided limited guidance that it was done hiking, only outlining factors that will go into “adjustments” to policy.
    “The Committee does not expect it will be appropriate to reduce the target range until it has gained greater confidence that inflation is moving sustainably toward 2 percent,” the statement said.
    During Fed Chair Jerome Powell’s news conference, he said policymakers are waiting to see additional data to verify that the trends are continuing. He also noted that a March rate cut is unlikely.
    “I don’t think it’s likely that the committee will reach a level of confidence by the” March meeting, Powell said.
    “We want to see more good data. It’s not that we’re looking for better data, we’re looking for a continuation of the good data we’ve been seeing,” he added.

    Markets initially took the news in stride but slid following Powell’s comments casting doubt on a March cut. The Dow Jones Industrial Average surrendered more than 300 points in the session while Treasury yields plunged. Futures pricing also swung, with the market assigning about a 64% chance the Fed would stay put at its March 19-20 meeting, according to CME Group calculations.
    While the committee’s statement did condense the factors that policymakers would consider when assessing policy, it did not explicitly rule out more increases. One notable change was removing as a consideration the lagged effects of monetary policy. Officials largely believe it takes at least 12 to 18 months for adjustments to take effect; the Fed last hiked in July 2023 after starting the tightening cycle in March 2022.

    “In considering any adjustments to the target range for the federal funds rate, the Committee will carefully assess incoming data, the evolving outlook, and the balance of risks,” the statement said. That language replaced a bevy of factors including “the cumulative tightening of monetary policy, the lags with which monetary policy affects economic activity and inflation, and economic and financial developments.”

    ‘Moving into better balance’

    Those changes were part of an overhaul in which the Fed seeks to chart a course ahead, with inflation moving lower and economic growth proving resilient. The statement indicated that economic growth has been “solid” and noted the progress made on inflation.
    “The Committee judges that the risks to achieving its employment and inflation goals are moving into better balance,” the FOMC missive said. “The economic outlook is uncertain, and the Committee remains highly attentive to inflation risks.”Gone from the statement was a key clause that had referenced “the extent of any additional policy firming” that might come. Some Fed watchers had been looking for language to emphasize that additional rate hikes were unlikely, but the statement left the question at least somewhat open.Going into the meeting, markets had expected the Fed could begin reducing its benchmark overnight borrowing rate as soon as March, with May also a possible launching point. Immediately after the decision, stocks fell to session lows.Policymakers, though, have been more circumspect about their intentions, cautioning that they see no need to move quickly as they watch the data unfold. Committee members in December indicated a likelihood of three quarter-percentage point rate cuts this year, less ambitious than the six that futures markets are pricing, according to the CME Group.More immediately, the committee, for the fourth consecutive time, unanimously voted not to raise the fed funds rate. The key rate is targeted in a range between 5.25%-5.5%, the highest in nearly 23 years.The Fed has been riding a wave of decelerating inflation, a strong labor market and solid economic growth, giving it both leeway to start easing up on monetary policy and caution about growth that could reaccelerate and drive prices higher again. Along with 11 rate hikes, the Fed also has been allowing its bond holdings to roll off, a process that has shaved more than $1.2 trillion off the central bank balance sheet. The statement indicated that the balance sheet runoff will continue apace.

    The ‘soft-landing’ narrative

    Many economists now are adopting a soft-landing narrative where the Fed can bring inflation down without torpedoing economic growth.

    Separate reports Wednesday indicated that the labor market is softening, but so are wages. Payrolls processing firm ADP reported that private companies added just 107,000 new workers in January, a number that was below market expectations but still indicative of an expanding labor market. Also, the Labor Department reported that the employment cost index, a gauge the Fed watches closely for signals of inflation coming through wages, increased just 0.9% in the fourth quarter, the smallest rise since the second quarter of 2021.More broadly, inflation as measured through core personal consumption expenditures prices rose 2.9% in December from the prior year, the lowest since March 2021. On a six- and three-month basis, core PCE prices both ran at or below the Fed’s target.In a separate matter, the Fed also announced it was altering its investment policy both for high-ranking officials and staff. The changes expand the scope of those covered to include anyone with access to “confidential FOMC information” and said some staff might be required to submit brokerage statements or other documents to verify the accuracy of disclosures.The changes follow controversy over multiple Fed officials trading from private accounts at a time when the central bank was making major changes to policy in the early days of the Covid pandemic.
    Don’t miss these stories from CNBC PRO: More

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    Bank of England could be about to open the door to interest rate cuts

    Goldman sees a first 25 basis point cut in May, followed by further quarter-point increments at every meeting until the Bank rate reaches 3% in May 2025.
    JPMorgan also expects the MPC to hint at a potential easing of monetary policy around the summer, but does not believe it will come until August.

    People walk outside the Bank of England in the City of London financial district, in London, Britain, January 26, 2023.
    Henry Nicholls | Reuters

    LONDON — The Bank of England is widely expected to hold interest rates steady at 5.25% on Thursday, but market observers will be closely watching voting patterns, projections and language for hints about future rate cuts.
    The market on Wednesday afternoon was pricing a more than 96% likelihood that the British central bank’s Monetary Policy Committee will leave rates unchanged at their current historically high levels, as recent economic data has been pointing to meaningful progress across the institution’s three indicators of inflation persistence.

    The labor market has shown signs of rebalancing, although the overall trajectory remains somewhat uncertain, while wage growth and services inflation have surprised the bank’s November projections substantially to the downside, Goldman Sachs economists noted Sunday.
    “We therefore expect a 9-0-0 vote split with no dissents, but the vote split remains difficult to predict given limited recent commentary by MPC members,” Goldman economist Ibrahim Quadri said, suggesting the three dissenting voices for further rate increases at the December meeting will fall into line.
    “In the case of dissents, we think a dovish dissent in the form of [Swati] Dhingra voting for a 25bp cut and/or a hawkish dissent in the form of [Catherine] Mann voting for 25bp hike are possible, but we think hawkish dissents are less likely given that there has been a moderation in underlying services inflation since the MPC’s last meeting.”

    The services consumer price index annual rate came in at 6.4% in December, a slight increase from the 6.3% of November, but below the 6.9% of September, according to the last data available to the MPC when it made its November projections.
    U.K. headline inflation unexpectedly nudged upward to an annual 4% in December on the back of a rise in alcohol and tobacco prices, while the closely watched core CPI figure was unchanged at 5.1%.

    Though sluggish, the U.K. economy has also outperformed expectations and thus far staved off a technical recession, though GDP flatlined in the third quarter of 2023 and many economists still see a recession in store.
    Updated projections
    Quadri says the updated projections of Thursday are likely to show a meaningful upward adjustment to the bank’s growth forecast and a reduction of its near-term inflation forecast, though this could be revised up toward the end of the forecast horizon due to the lower conditioning rate path.
    “We expect the MPC to retain its data-dependent approach and reiterate that monetary policy ‘will need to be sufficiently restrictive for sufficiently long’,” Quadri said.
    “But we think that the MPC may mitigate its tightening bias and soften its policy language somewhat by no longer stating that ‘further tightening in monetary policy would be required if there were evidence of more persistent inflationary pressures’.”
    Goldman sees a first 25 basis point cut in May, followed by further quarter-point increments at every meeting until the bank rate reaches 3% in May 2025.

    JPMorgan U.K. economist Allan Monks also expects the MPC will hint at a potential easing of monetary policy around the summer, but does not believe it will come until August.
    “The BoE will not shut the door on a potential May cut, but we think it will also not want to encourage expectations for an easing that early,” he said in a research note last week.
    “The BoE’s updated narrative is likely to be that clear progress is being made on inflation, but that it is too early to declare victory and therefore caution must be exercised when thinking about when and how quickly policy can be normalised.”
    JPMorgan also expects the votes for further rate increases to disappear, leaving the MPC unanimous in its decision to hold rates on Thursday. The bank did not rule out the possibility of Dhingra voting for a 25 basis point cut at this meeting.
    “While the MPC’s vote is not formal guidance, there is often a fair degree of weight placed on its change from one meeting to the next,” Monks said.
    “If there is one dovish dissent, however, this should not necessarily be viewed as a reliable guide to where the rest of the committee is and hence the likelihood of an earlier cut.” More

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    Here’s what changed in the new Fed statement

    This is a comparison of Wednesday’s Federal Open Market Committee statement with the one issued after the Fed’s previous policymaking meeting in December.
    Text removed from the December statement is in blue with a horizontal line through the middle.

    Text appearing for the first time in the new statement is in blue and underlined.
    Black text appears in both statements.

    Arrows pointing outwards More

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    You hear the market expects six Fed rate cuts this year — here’s where that data comes from

    Here’s our Club Mailbag email [email protected] — so you send your questions directly to Jim Cramer and his team of analysts. We can’t offer personal investing advice. We will only consider more general questions about the investment process or stocks in the portfolio or related industries. This week’s question: CNBC guests often say six Fed cuts are priced into the 2024 market. How do they know? Is it just their opinion? Do they have some calculation or is this just a pitch to support some bearish investment strategy? – Mike H. When you hear about the number of Federal Reserve interest rate cuts being priced into the market, the data comes from the CME FedWatch tool . This tool, which leverages data from fed funds futures contract prices, can be used to determine the likelihood of a cut (or hike) in the near-term, like the next meeting, or where rates might be headed over the next year. The overnight fed funds bank lending rate is the rate that everyone is referring to when talking about Fed rate moves. The current range is 5.25% to 5.5% following 11 rate hikes from March 2022 to July 2023. There was a pause at the June, November and December meetings. In terms of cuts being “priced in” for the full year, this is determined by where the market predicts the Fed target rate will be by year-end in December. Looking at a snapshot at the CME FedWatch tool, as of this writing and ahead of Wednesday afternoon’s Fed rate decision and central bank chief Jerome Powell news conference, it shows the probability of various targets by December 2024. As we can see, the highest probability, roughly 40%, is being attributed to the 375 to 400 basis point cut range by year end. Each cut amounts to a 25-basis point, or 0.25 percentage point, reduction to the range. One hundred basis points equals 1 percentage point. So, with if the current fed funds range is 5.25% to 5.5%, as we can see right above the chart, then the implication is that the Fed will cut by 150 basis points, or 1.5 percentage points in 2024. That’s where the six 25-basis-point cuts come from. If you follow the link above, you will be able to pick any month, during which the Fed has a meeting, and do this same analysis to determine how many cuts the market thinks we will see by the conclusion of the meeting in that given month. Heading into the January meeting, we can see the market is placing a nearly 94% probability on the Fed holding rates at the current range following the January meeting. That’s a tick down from the roughly 98% we saw Tuesday. Perhaps, it’s because of the weaker-than-expected ADP private-sector employment report out Wednesday morning. In addition to leveraging this data to understand what the market is factoring in, you should compare it to your own outlook. You may have heard us say things like, the market is trading on Fed rate cuts. What we mean is that the valuation models being used to find appropriate price levels are factoring in six cuts. If you think that’s too much, then you would want to be more cautious as it would mean that the market is getting ahead of itself by pricing in a lower rate environment more quickly than it will be realized, according to your own world view. The opposite may also be true. However, keep in mind, while the general view is that lower rates are better for stock, given the impact on multiples and discount rates in discounted cash flow models, the more important question is why rates are where they are. Are they low because inflation has come down and the economy is still chugging along (bullish) or are they low because the economy is tanking (more, sub-optimal as Jim Cramer would say)? (See here for a full list of the stocks INJim Cramer’s Charitable Trust.) As a subscriber to the CNBC Investing Club with Jim Cramer, you will receive a trade alert before Jim makes a trade. Jim waits 45 minutes after sending a trade alert before buying or selling a stock in his charitable trust’s portfolio. If Jim has talked about a stock on CNBC TV, he waits 72 hours after issuing the trade alert before executing the trade. THE ABOVE INVESTING CLUB INFORMATION IS SUBJECT TO OUR TERMS AND CONDITIONS AND PRIVACY POLICY , TOGETHER WITH OUR DISCLAIMER . NO FIDUCIARY OBLIGATION OR DUTY EXISTS, OR IS CREATED, BY VIRTUE OF YOUR RECEIPT OF ANY INFORMATION PROVIDED IN CONNECTION WITH THE INVESTING CLUB. NO SPECIFIC OUTCOME OR PROFIT IS GUARANTEED.

    Here’s our Club Mailbag email [email protected] — so you send your questions directly to Jim Cramer and his team of analysts. We can’t offer personal investing advice. We will only consider more general questions about the investment process or stocks in the portfolio or related industries.

    This week’s question: CNBC guests often say six Fed cuts are priced into the 2024 market. How do they know? Is it just their opinion? Do they have some calculation or is this just a pitch to support some bearish investment strategy? – Mike H. More

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    Former UK finance minister joins Coinbase crypto exchange as an advisor

    Coinbase announced Wednesday that George Osborne, who served as Britain’s chancellor of the exchequer from 2010 to 2016, will join the company on its global advisory council.
    Faryar Shirzad, Coinbase’s chief policy officer, said the company was “pleased to have George join our council at an exciting time for us in the U.K. and globally.”
    Osborne’s ties with Coinbase aren’t totally new; he has interacted with the exchange previously at a U.K. fintech event in London and at the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

    Former British Chancellor George Osborne addresses guests during a visit to the Manchester Chamber of Commerce on July 1, 2016 in Manchester, England.
    Christopher Furlong | Getty Images

    LONDON — A former British finance minister on Wednesday joined cryptocurrency exchange Coinbase as a global advisor, beefing up the company’s regulatory bargaining power at a time when it faces severe scrutiny stateside.
    Coinbase announced that George Osborne, who served as Britain’s chancellor of the exchequer from 2010 to 2016, will join the company on its global advisory council.

    He’ll join the likes of Mark Esper, the former U.S. Secretary of Defense and Patrick Toomey (R-PA) on the council, which is in place to “advise Coinbase on our global strategy as we grow our reach around the world.”
    Faryar Shirzad, Coinbase’s chief policy officer, said the company was “pleased to have George join our council at an exciting time for us in the U.K. and globally.”
    “George brings with him a wealth of experience in business, journalism and government. We look forward to relying on his insights and experiences as we grow Coinbase around the world,” Shirzard added.
    Osborne will serve in an advisory capacity at Coinbase, helping connect the company with politicians and regulators to help further the cause of forming crypto-friendly regulations.
    While chancellor of the exchequer, Osborne launched a slew of austerity policies aimed at reducing the budget deficit, including freezing child benefits, reducing housing benefits, and implementing a two-year pay freeze for public sector workers. He also tried to stimulate business activity by cutting corporation tax.

    Osborne was temporarily editor-in-chief at London’s Evening Standard newspaper after completing his tenure as Britain’s finance minister. He is currently a partner at Robey Warshaw LLP, a boutique investment bank.
    “There’s a huge amount of exciting innovation in finance right now,” Osborne said. “Blockchains are transforming financial markets and online transactions.”
    “Coinbase is at the frontier of these developments. I look forward to working with the team there as they build a new future in financial services,” Osborne continued.

    Osborne’s ties with Coinbase aren’t new

    Suggestions of a growing relationship between Osborne and Coinbase first emerged last year, when Coinbase’s CEO Brian Armstrong spoke onstage in a fireside moderated by Osborne at a fintech event in London.
    Osborne subsequently spoke with Coinbase’s chief financial officer, Alesia Haas, at a fireside chat in the Belvedere Hotel during the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
    It comes as Coinbase has made something of a land grab across Europe, expanding in multiple countries over the last few months with new licenses in place. The company was granted a virtual asset service provider license in France last month, paving the way for expansion of its services there. It has also recently secured licenses in Spain, Singapore, and Bermuda.
    Coinbase is currently facing a harsh regulatory crackdown in the U.S. where the Securities and Exchange Commission has accused the company of violating securities laws. Coinbase denies the allegations.

    Last year, Coinbase chief Armstrong appeared on stage with Osborne at the Innovate Finance Global Summit conference in London. At the event, Armstrong said he was open to investing more abroad, including relocating from the U.S. to the U.K. or elsewhere if the regulatory pressure on crypto companies continues.
    “I think if a number of years go by where we don’t see regulatory clarity around us … we may have to consider investing more elsewhere in the world. Anything including, you know, relocating,” Armstrong told Osborne.
    He told CNBC’s Arjun Kharpal at the time that Coinbase was “looking at other markets” as it considers its position from a regulatory standpoint.
    Armstrong did later clarify in an interview with CNBC’s Dan Murphy that Coinbase had no formal plans to relocate from its U.S. headquarters in San Francisco. “Coinbase is not going to relocate overseas,” Armstrong said. “We’re always going to have a U.S. presence … But the U.S. is a little bit behind right now.” More

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    U.S.-China fentanyl talks get off to a ‘productive’ start, security advisor says

    The U.S. and China had a “productive” first day of talks in Beijing about the fentanyl crisis, Jennifer Daskal, a deputy homeland security advisor, told NBC News’ Janis Mackey Frayer in an exclusive interview Tuesday.
    Reducing illicit supplies of the drug, precursors of which are mostly produced in China and Mexico, has become an area in which Washington and Beijing have agreed to cooperate, amid an otherwise fraught bilateral relationship.
    “We will know if it works if we start seeing the supply of precursor drugs diminish, if we start seeing the supply of pill presses and other equipment diminish,” Daskal said.

    Chinese Minister of Public Security Wang Xiaohong (C) announces the launch of the U.S.-China Counternarcotics Working Group next to U.S. Deputy Assistant to the President and Deputy Homeland Security Advisor Jen Daskal (center L) at the Diaoyutai State Guesthouse in Beijing on January 30, 2024.
    Ng Han Guan | Afp | Getty Images

    BEIJING — The U.S. and China had a “productive” first day of talks in Beijing about the fentanyl crisis, Jennifer Daskal, a deputy homeland security advisor, told NBC News’ Janis Mackey Frayer in an exclusive interview Tuesday.
    “We’re looking for results and we had a productive step forward,” Daskal said, while acknowledging the risk that China could use its sway over the fentanyl supply chain as a bargaining chip.

    Fentanyl, a synthetic opioid, is an addictive drug that’s led to tens of thousands of overdose deaths each year in the U.S.
    Reducing illicit supplies of the drug, precursors of which are mostly produced in China and Mexico, has become an area in which Washington and Beijing have agreed to cooperate.
    It comes amid an otherwise fraught bilateral relationship.
    U.S. President Joe Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping agreed at their meeting in San Francisco in November to establish a working group on drug control.

    In an official readout of Tuesday’s meeting, Wang Xiaohong, director of China’s National Narcotics Control Commission, said he hoped both sides would “inject more positive energy” into the stable development of U.S.-China relations.

    Wang is also the Minister of Public Security.
    The Biden administration in November removed the Ministry of Public Security’s Institute of Forensic Science of China from a blacklist known as the entity list, in effect lifting sanctions on its narcotics lab.
    That removal allows China’s National Narcotics Lab to repair or buy new equipment — mostly made in the U.S. — and reduce delays in research, lab director Hua Zhendong told NBC News’ Mackey Frayer.
    Greater bilateral cooperation allows the two countries to exchange information about drugs more easily, Hua said.
    “Only through the information exchange could we know which substance is now a key problem in the U.S., because it’s only evolving.”

    ‘More needs to be done’

    The two-day meeting that kicked off Tuesday was billed as the “Inauguration of the China-U.S. Counternarcotics Working Group.”
    Daskal, leader of the White House delegation for this week’s high-level talks, said the diversity of representatives from both sides “showed a real commitment.”
    “We will know if it works if we start seeing the supply of precursor drugs diminish, if we start seeing the supply of pill presses and other equipment diminish,” Daskal said. She pointed out that Beijing has already sent notices to Chinese companies that make precursors for fentanyl, and that incidents are being reported to the International Narcotics Control.
    “There’s obviously more that needs to be done,” she said.
    It’s unclear to what extent Beijing is willing, or able, to act.
    Earlier this month, Yu Haibin, deputy secretary-general of the National Narcotics Control Commission, told NBC News that the “root cause” of the fentanyl crisis lies within the U.S.
    “Demand needs to be reduced, as controlling demand will naturally curb supply,” Yu told NBC’s Mackey Frayer.

    “I want to emphasize the global nature of drug crimes. These criminals work very closely together. Our law enforcement agencies need to collaborate even more closely than the criminals so there can be a robust response to these crimes,” Yu said.
    He is also deputy director general of the Ministry of Public Security’s Narcotics Control Bureau.
    Asked about the issue of U.S. fentanyl demand, Daskal said the two delegations spent most of Tuesday discussing “the fact that this is a problem of both demand and supply.”
    “We talked about the need … to address the supply of the pill, process and other equipment that are used to manufacture these deadly drugs, and to often hide them and create fake pills that look like they’re other things [that] turned out to be deadly fentanyl,” Daskal said. More